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[Music]

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okay

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now for our interview with nina bells

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why don't we start with you just kind of

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explaining how

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this became your life's passion

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so uh in 2006 i was working on my

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master's degree which is

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in theology with the concentration in

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women's concerns

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and so i this came up and my professor

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took me to vietnam indonesia

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cambodia and we saw it and

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all the time in my mind i'm thinking

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what about the united states

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i i live in the united states it happens

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right here and

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as i came home and i began researching

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there was nothing

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not one thing written before 2011

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on human trafficking in the united

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states

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and what did you see in cambodia et

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cetera on this trip

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well it's horrific you know it's it's

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um in some areas it's more

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open than uh

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than it is here in the united states all

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the united states i've seen it pretty

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pretty in the wide open as well uh

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but yeah human trafficking no matter

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what country you're in

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has similarities and it's

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and what is the type of human

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trafficking because there's all

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different

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types and maybe you should start with

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the definition of it but

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what what type is the one and we'll

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focus on the u.s since that's been your

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focus

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is the one that concerns you most so i

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would say

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that all trafficking concerns me i don't

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focus on a particular type because i

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have

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friends that i've become friends with

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over the years who

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are survivors of labor trafficking

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housekeeping uh all kinds of

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of different types of trafficking

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i say i could never look my friend in

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the face

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and say what happened to you isn't as

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bad as what happened to her

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because it is and if you think you know

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some people

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think labor trafficking you think of

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labor trafficking and it's just like

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well it's terrible they work too hard

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got blisters on their hands

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but it's not that way at all the first

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case i worked on here in central oregon

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was a labor trafficking case that

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involved horrific

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sexual abuse horrific manipulations

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beatings um the the final

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straw for the trafficking victim when

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she finally said

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i'm gonna die if i don't get out of here

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is one night

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after a brutal rape by the trafficker

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he brought a butcher knife to her room

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that night

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sliced her across the top of the

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forehead

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with the butcher knife you know that to

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me

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raped

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day after day after day after night

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you know they're both horrific so

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um i i don't you know

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dial down to one type of trafficking

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being worse than the other

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i understand uh so let's talk about the

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super bowl why

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did the super bowl become a focus for

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you

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so in 2010 i was invited to go to

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uh do human trafficking work surrounding

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a

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event

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and the democratic convention

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the large tech events

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you're going to have a rise in human

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trafficking

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there's money there traffickers are in

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it for the money

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period end of story and so

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when you've got a lot of people there

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especially if it's a primarily male

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audience there are going to be

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traffickers

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looking for opportunity to make money

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and how do we

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distinguish between good old-fashioned

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prostitution which of course is illegal

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um but uh between

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prostitution which the woman is

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voluntarily

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doing versus trafficking which involves

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something that's involuntary

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or coerced yeah very good question

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um so the um

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the saying is prostitution is the oldest

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profession

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i've been doing this for 15 years i've

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known a lot of survivors of prostitution

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and sex trafficking the large majority

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of prostitution what we know of as

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prostitution

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is actually sex trafficking uh there are

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those who decide to post themselves

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if they're young they're

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you know 21 24 and under

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you've got predators traffickers

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um they like to call themselves pimps i

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like to call them

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traffickers because that's all they are

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they're not

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temp has a cool connotation but they're

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traffickers

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and they prey on those who think they

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can sell themselves

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and they've got a line that they feed

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them they make sure

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that the person who's prostituting

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themselves

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knows they need protection and they

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offer them

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all kinds of benefits they romeo them

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and uh so somebody in that age bracket

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that is prostituting themselves very

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likely is going to

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get picked up by a trafficker it's not

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safe

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and then when they get older

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and they're prostituting themselves it's

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generally because

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they've been trafficked at a younger age

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and they've kind of aged out of the

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system

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and so they say i can do this

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on my own the traffickers are looking

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for

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somebody that's easier to control easier

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to sell

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and so they go out on their own and

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because they don't know anything else

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people don't

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do prostitution because they like sex

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it's a it's a totally different

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game it's they do that because they

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don't have anything else to do

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and the misnomer that we've got the

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bunny and it's not called the bunny

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ranch anymore but

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um brothels in uh nevada

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that uh they're protected that's a

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misnomer too because the traffickers

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take them down there sometimes as a

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punishment if

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a victim is not producing enough

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revenue if they are not obeying

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the trafficker and making

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him or her happy most traffickers are

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going to be male but

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we're having more and more female

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traffickers

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but if a victim is not

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producing or doing things right they

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take them to those brothels

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where there's somebody there to keep an

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eye on them and

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they have to produce so um

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you know the whole um

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misnomer that our society has believed

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about this is what we've got to change

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we work a lot with legislation

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and changing laws and making stiffer

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penalties for traffickers making more

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services available for

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survivors but what

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we have to do we can't the laws won't

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change

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what's happening in the united states

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and

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the arrests won't change what's

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happening in the united states

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and although we're both for legislation

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and more

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appropriate arrests um what we have to

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change is we have to change the culture

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the culture of the

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uh the happy hooker uh

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the um

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the kind of you know oldest profession

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uh those kinds of things have to change

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and we have to we have to talk about the

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realities

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so kudos to you for bringing

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us on to talk about the realities

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because that's where we've got to change

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yeah i think it's something that people

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as you point out don't don't think

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enough about and there's a lot of nuance

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to it as you've just kind of explained

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that

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um you know my thinking would be if it's

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an adult

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uh be a prostitute that i'm a

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libertarian you know

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do what you want with your own body what

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you're explaining is well yes

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perhaps but there's these traffickers

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out there that are taking advantage of

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these women

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so i guess when you talk about policies

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and legislation

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i'm curious what you have in mind

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starting with

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some potential legalization of

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prostitution i mean

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there are uh countries that have done

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this

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you know amsterdam is the obvious one

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that people think about with their red

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light district and

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and so on um because you know i have

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this theory when it comes to drugs

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that anything that you make illegal

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creates an underground economy

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underground enforcements underground

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sales

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gangs thrive the cartels in mexico are

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the obvious example

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gangs in our inner cities are an obvious

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example they thrive on

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things like drug sales so i've always

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argued that i think we ought to legalize

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drugs

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that's a whole complicated issue but why

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doesn't the same thing perhaps apply to

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prostitution

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um that is an excellent question um i'm

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gonna refer you some research

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uh to some research from a book called

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prostitution and trafficking in nevada

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by melissa farley it is an excellent

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book and it

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tackles that very question for those who

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are

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um there's a big movement right now to

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legalize prostitution but if you look at

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amsterdam if you look at those

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we just talked about the brothels in

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nevada those are not

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safe places just because somebody's

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tested once a month for stds

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i'm that's the most ludicrous thing

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i've ever seen they're seeing

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you know 10 maybe 20 different

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uh sex buyers a night and

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you know you get tested once a month

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that's

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and there's you know in those brothels

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everyone's ripping off everyone if you

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look at amsterdam

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uh i have people uh friends who

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do anti-trafficking work there there are

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uh people trafficked from all

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over europe there's uh different um

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different countries the trafficking

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looks different getting them to

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amsterdam

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but there's nothing lovely or free

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about that and i would agree with you a

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a

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prostitution

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you have a higher incidence of

291
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trafficking

292
00:12:17,030 --> 00:12:13,200
what they what is um

293
00:12:20,949 --> 00:12:17,040
successful is the nordic model

294
00:12:24,389 --> 00:12:20,959
where um for prostitution

295
00:12:29,350 --> 00:12:24,399
there's services offered and they don't

296
00:12:32,389 --> 00:12:29,360
um but there is tremendous

297
00:12:35,590 --> 00:12:32,399
penalties for those who are

298
00:12:37,110 --> 00:12:35,600
trafficking so that way the brothels

299
00:12:40,470 --> 00:12:37,120
don't profit

300
00:12:43,030 --> 00:12:40,480
the um the traffickers

301
00:12:43,509 --> 00:12:43,040
don't profit so you've got to stiffen

302
00:12:46,629 --> 00:12:43,519
those

303
00:12:50,829 --> 00:12:46,639
penalties and really make it

304
00:12:53,829 --> 00:12:50,839
it um illegal to buy sex

305
00:12:57,110 --> 00:12:53,839
but the the victim

306
00:13:01,110 --> 00:12:57,120
is never prosecuted and so

307
00:13:04,870 --> 00:13:01,120
when that happens the prostitution

308
00:13:08,550 --> 00:13:04,880
and the the sex trafficking moves

309
00:13:10,629 --> 00:13:08,560
out of that country yeah it's almost

310
00:13:12,870 --> 00:13:10,639
sounding as if you're saying

311
00:13:15,190 --> 00:13:12,880
there's very little parallel to making

312
00:13:16,949 --> 00:13:15,200
it legal versus illegal when it comes to

313
00:13:20,629 --> 00:13:16,959
trafficking that whether

314
00:13:22,069 --> 00:13:20,639
the act itself is legal or illegal

315
00:13:24,150 --> 00:13:22,079
you're going to have groups out there

316
00:13:25,509 --> 00:13:24,160
trying to traffic women and make them

317
00:13:28,230 --> 00:13:25,519
available

318
00:13:28,790 --> 00:13:28,240
whether it's legal or not right so i

319
00:13:30,470 --> 00:13:28,800
guess

320
00:13:32,949 --> 00:13:30,480
just to keep going a little bit on the

321
00:13:36,310 --> 00:13:32,959
line of potential legalization as far as

322
00:13:39,590 --> 00:13:36,320
something that could help this problem

323
00:13:41,670 --> 00:13:39,600
um you know i'm just thinking out loud

324
00:13:44,150 --> 00:13:41,680
here about a modeling agency

325
00:13:45,750 --> 00:13:44,160
i mean now a lot of modeling agencies

326
00:13:49,189 --> 00:13:45,760
are rife with problems also

327
00:13:51,350 --> 00:13:49,199
but here's an example of a legitimate

328
00:13:54,710 --> 00:13:51,360
business a modeling agency

329
00:13:55,430 --> 00:13:54,720
that represents these models and puts

330
00:13:57,509 --> 00:13:55,440
them out on

331
00:13:59,030 --> 00:13:57,519
jobs and so on and it's all pretty above

332
00:14:02,790 --> 00:13:59,040
board and for the most part

333
00:14:06,150 --> 00:14:02,800
relatively speaking um you know safe

334
00:14:09,430 --> 00:14:06,160
um and and efficient so

335
00:14:11,110 --> 00:14:09,440
if it was legal in improperly regulated

336
00:14:13,269 --> 00:14:11,120
do you see a scenario where there could

337
00:14:16,389 --> 00:14:13,279
be the equivalent of modeling agencies

338
00:14:18,629 --> 00:14:16,399
no i don't at all because again

339
00:14:19,670 --> 00:14:18,639
research shows that the incidence of

340
00:14:23,590 --> 00:14:19,680
trafficking goes

341
00:14:28,150 --> 00:14:23,600
up when it's legalized so no i don't see

342
00:14:31,430 --> 00:14:28,160
i don't see that at all i think that um

343
00:14:35,110 --> 00:14:31,440
i am i am opposed to that

344
00:14:37,990 --> 00:14:35,120
based on you know my whole life for the

345
00:14:41,430 --> 00:14:38,000
last 15 years has been dedicated

346
00:14:45,030 --> 00:14:41,440
to um

347
00:14:46,790 --> 00:14:45,040
my focus my my viewpoint is from a

348
00:14:47,910 --> 00:14:46,800
survivor's point of view and while i'm

349
00:14:50,629 --> 00:14:47,920
not a survivor

350
00:14:51,750 --> 00:14:50,639
i have hundreds of friends who are and

351
00:14:55,110 --> 00:14:51,760
um

352
00:14:59,430 --> 00:14:55,120
it just it does them no favors and

353
00:15:03,670 --> 00:14:59,440
that you also need to look at the roots

354
00:15:07,509 --> 00:15:03,680
of the financing of that movement

355
00:15:08,230 --> 00:15:07,519
it is financed by those in the strip

356
00:15:11,269 --> 00:15:08,240
clubs

357
00:15:14,629 --> 00:15:11,279
in in the pornography

358
00:15:18,550 --> 00:15:14,639
um you know places that benefit

359
00:15:19,990 --> 00:15:18,560
from that are financing that because

360
00:15:23,189 --> 00:15:20,000
they want

361
00:15:24,389 --> 00:15:23,199
the the chains off of them so that they

362
00:15:26,550 --> 00:15:24,399
can make more money

363
00:15:27,430 --> 00:15:26,560
again right back down to what i said in

364
00:15:32,069 --> 00:15:27,440
the beginning

365
00:15:35,590 --> 00:15:34,870
welcome to america and welcome to the

366
00:15:37,910 --> 00:15:35,600
world

367
00:15:38,990 --> 00:15:37,920
right um but we're not going to we're

368
00:15:41,110 --> 00:15:39,000
not going to

369
00:15:43,910 --> 00:15:41,120
[Music]

370
00:15:45,509 --> 00:15:43,920
make money on the backs of of victims

371
00:15:48,230 --> 00:15:45,519
that's my point

372
00:15:50,550 --> 00:15:48,240
if everything is based on money but i'm

373
00:15:51,910 --> 00:15:50,560
not going to make money based on the

374
00:15:53,910 --> 00:15:51,920
backs of victims

375
00:15:55,749 --> 00:15:53,920
uh and and that's what we stand to

376
00:15:57,110 --> 00:15:55,759
protect

377
00:15:59,350 --> 00:15:57,120
would you say well i mean i guess i

378
00:16:02,389 --> 00:15:59,360
would ask what are the policy changes

379
00:16:03,829 --> 00:16:02,399
law changes that you search for i mean

380
00:16:04,629 --> 00:16:03,839
being as tough as possible on

381
00:16:07,990 --> 00:16:04,639
traffickers

382
00:16:10,629 --> 00:16:08,000
obviously everybody supports that uh

383
00:16:12,870 --> 00:16:10,639
what it what how do you feel about

384
00:16:14,870 --> 00:16:12,880
should it be you know you mentioned the

385
00:16:16,870 --> 00:16:14,880
the scandinavian model where it's not

386
00:16:19,189 --> 00:16:16,880
illegal for the woman she

387
00:16:21,509 --> 00:16:19,199
would not be punished for prostituting

388
00:16:24,389 --> 00:16:21,519
herself is that something that you

389
00:16:25,110 --> 00:16:24,399
recommend as the u.s adopt from a legal

390
00:16:28,150 --> 00:16:25,120
standpoint

391
00:16:31,430 --> 00:16:28,160
yeah i think in the swedish model in the

392
00:16:35,189 --> 00:16:31,440
nordic model there is a

393
00:16:38,230 --> 00:16:35,199
um there is a the movement is to protect

394
00:16:41,670 --> 00:16:38,240
the victim and to put tougher

395
00:16:44,870 --> 00:16:41,680
police tougher penalties on

396
00:16:46,870 --> 00:16:44,880
the uh trafficker so

397
00:16:48,230 --> 00:16:46,880
we have something called a freedom

398
00:16:50,389 --> 00:16:48,240
sticker and

399
00:16:51,670 --> 00:16:50,399
we've done legislation based around that

400
00:16:53,910 --> 00:16:51,680
so that

401
00:16:55,829 --> 00:16:53,920
i'm sure some of your viewers have seen

402
00:16:57,509 --> 00:16:55,839
they're in all 50 states

403
00:16:59,110 --> 00:16:57,519
they go in the restroom stalls that

404
00:17:01,350 --> 00:16:59,120
gives that's

405
00:17:02,470 --> 00:17:01,360
oftentimes the only place a victim is

406
00:17:06,390 --> 00:17:02,480
able to

407
00:17:08,549 --> 00:17:06,400
ask for help so laws

408
00:17:09,590 --> 00:17:08,559
mandating those go in the restroom

409
00:17:11,990 --> 00:17:09,600
stalls so

410
00:17:13,829 --> 00:17:12,000
people can reach out and ask for help

411
00:17:17,590 --> 00:17:13,839
when they're ready

412
00:17:20,949 --> 00:17:17,600
we also advocate for

413
00:17:24,309 --> 00:17:20,959
victims uh because in the

414
00:17:26,870 --> 00:17:24,319
in the life which is what um

415
00:17:29,270 --> 00:17:26,880
it's called the prostitution the

416
00:17:33,029 --> 00:17:29,280
trafficking it's called the life

417
00:17:37,270 --> 00:17:33,039
in the life um there are

418
00:17:40,390 --> 00:17:37,280
um basically a lot of

419
00:17:41,350 --> 00:17:40,400
inner actions between the traffickers

420
00:17:45,029 --> 00:17:41,360
between

421
00:17:48,390 --> 00:17:45,039
the it's it's um

422
00:17:51,510 --> 00:17:48,400
it's very intertwined so if a victim

423
00:17:53,830 --> 00:17:51,520
has had a bad beating if her trafficker

424
00:17:57,350 --> 00:17:53,840
has set her mother's house on fire

425
00:17:58,470 --> 00:17:57,360
uh if a victim has had her dog killed by

426
00:18:01,750 --> 00:17:58,480
the trafficker

427
00:18:03,190 --> 00:18:01,760
to control her those are just you know

428
00:18:05,830 --> 00:18:03,200
some things that have happened that

429
00:18:09,909 --> 00:18:05,840
we've watched over the years

430
00:18:12,710 --> 00:18:09,919
then we can

431
00:18:13,590 --> 00:18:12,720
a victim sometimes that prompts her to

432
00:18:16,870 --> 00:18:13,600
be able to

433
00:18:17,669 --> 00:18:16,880
ask for help so to go then to law

434
00:18:19,750 --> 00:18:17,679
enforcement

435
00:18:21,110 --> 00:18:19,760
and say i need help and this is what's

436
00:18:24,710 --> 00:18:21,120
happening

437
00:18:27,430 --> 00:18:24,720
right now our laws state

438
00:18:29,190 --> 00:18:27,440
for the most part that she can't go

439
00:18:31,750 --> 00:18:29,200
anonymously

440
00:18:34,470 --> 00:18:31,760
which means that not only did he burn

441
00:18:37,990 --> 00:18:34,480
down her mother's house last month

442
00:18:39,830 --> 00:18:38,000
this month he's gonna

443
00:18:41,190 --> 00:18:39,840
recruit her little sister pull her

444
00:18:43,909 --> 00:18:41,200
little sister from school

445
00:18:44,310 --> 00:18:43,919
when she she gets out of school you know

446
00:18:48,230 --> 00:18:44,320
so

447
00:18:51,510 --> 00:18:48,240
we need an anonymity for witnesses

448
00:18:55,029 --> 00:18:51,520
complete anonymity not just until

449
00:18:57,510 --> 00:18:55,039
that trafficker is convicted because

450
00:18:58,549 --> 00:18:57,520
one of the things that we do is

451
00:19:00,390 --> 00:18:58,559
listening to

452
00:19:02,630 --> 00:19:00,400
with uh in cooperation with law

453
00:19:05,669 --> 00:19:02,640
enforcement is listen to

454
00:19:09,190 --> 00:19:05,679
uh i mean it's widely known all

455
00:19:12,310 --> 00:19:09,200
jail calls prison calls are recorded

456
00:19:16,390 --> 00:19:12,320
and so we

457
00:19:19,909 --> 00:19:16,400
hear traffickers controlling victims

458
00:19:22,070 --> 00:19:19,919
from the inside so that doesn't

459
00:19:23,590 --> 00:19:22,080
make her safe just because he was

460
00:19:26,150 --> 00:19:23,600
convicted

461
00:19:27,190 --> 00:19:26,160
now he's having somebody else do his

462
00:19:29,350 --> 00:19:27,200
dirty work

463
00:19:30,470 --> 00:19:29,360
outside and this person who's testified

464
00:19:33,110 --> 00:19:30,480
against him

465
00:19:34,390 --> 00:19:33,120
has no recourse so are they going to

466
00:19:37,190 --> 00:19:34,400
talk to law enforcement

467
00:19:38,630 --> 00:19:37,200
no so we've got to really have that

468
00:19:42,390 --> 00:19:38,640
mentality

469
00:19:45,270 --> 00:19:42,400
that this is about survivors

470
00:19:47,110 --> 00:19:45,280
victims and we've got to look at that

471
00:19:48,710 --> 00:19:47,120
and we've got to do prevention that's

472
00:19:51,029 --> 00:19:48,720
the other side of this coin

473
00:19:52,710 --> 00:19:51,039
is prevention in our backyard has a

474
00:19:58,070 --> 00:19:52,720
schools program

475
00:20:01,830 --> 00:19:58,080
uh every child from the age of 12

476
00:20:04,950 --> 00:20:01,840
through school should have education

477
00:20:08,390 --> 00:20:04,960
about trafficking and what

478
00:20:10,789 --> 00:20:08,400
it is to look for what this means we

479
00:20:12,870 --> 00:20:10,799
have never gone into a school

480
00:20:13,909 --> 00:20:12,880
but what we've had some kind of a

481
00:20:17,270 --> 00:20:13,919
disclosure

482
00:20:19,669 --> 00:20:17,280
i have been in um

483
00:20:20,710 --> 00:20:19,679
high schools and watched a trafficker in

484
00:20:24,070 --> 00:20:20,720
the hallway

485
00:20:25,510 --> 00:20:24,080
with victims so you know we've got to

486
00:20:28,470 --> 00:20:25,520
get the education

487
00:20:29,430 --> 00:20:28,480
up we've got to continue to change the

488
00:20:33,110 --> 00:20:29,440
laws

489
00:20:36,789 --> 00:20:33,120
and do more arrests correctly

490
00:20:39,909 --> 00:20:36,799
uh and we've also got to

491
00:20:42,310 --> 00:20:39,919
do prevention i would

492
00:20:43,830 --> 00:20:42,320
it makes perfect sense to me that by not

493
00:20:47,990 --> 00:20:43,840
making it a crime

494
00:20:49,909 --> 00:20:48,000
for um let's say the the woman

495
00:20:51,029 --> 00:20:49,919
um makes it easier for her to come

496
00:20:53,270 --> 00:20:51,039
forward

497
00:20:54,710 --> 00:20:53,280
right and report something i'm also

498
00:20:56,230 --> 00:20:54,720
thinking though that you know the way

499
00:20:58,390 --> 00:20:56,240
the police work is they always

500
00:20:59,990 --> 00:20:58,400
like to get the person to rat out the

501
00:21:03,110 --> 00:21:00,000
person above them so if they bust

502
00:21:03,909 --> 00:21:03,120
someone in a sex crime then they can say

503
00:21:06,950 --> 00:21:03,919
well

504
00:21:10,070 --> 00:21:06,960
if you tell us who sent you here etc

505
00:21:13,029 --> 00:21:10,080
then you get off so i'm wondering if

506
00:21:14,310 --> 00:21:13,039
uh prosecutors might say that well if

507
00:21:16,310 --> 00:21:14,320
you don't make it a crime

508
00:21:17,750 --> 00:21:16,320
then they've got no incentive to rat out

509
00:21:20,390 --> 00:21:17,760
the people above them

510
00:21:21,510 --> 00:21:20,400
there there is some um there is some

511
00:21:24,710 --> 00:21:21,520
talk of that

512
00:21:27,750 --> 00:21:24,720
and um and i don't believe

513
00:21:30,789 --> 00:21:27,760
in arresting somebody for prostitution

514
00:21:33,110 --> 00:21:30,799
for the most part um

515
00:21:34,630 --> 00:21:33,120
i will tell you that i have friends

516
00:21:37,750 --> 00:21:34,640
close friends

517
00:21:39,669 --> 00:21:37,760
who um i i'll talk to you about

518
00:21:41,510 --> 00:21:39,679
a friend that's been very public about

519
00:21:44,630 --> 00:21:41,520
it her name is wendy barnes

520
00:21:45,669 --> 00:21:44,640
she actually lives in your area she has

521
00:21:48,710 --> 00:21:45,679
a book called

522
00:21:52,149 --> 00:21:48,720
uh and life continues that talks about

523
00:21:55,350 --> 00:21:52,159
her uh her experience she was trafficked

524
00:21:58,070 --> 00:21:55,360
i believe for 12 years by

525
00:21:59,110 --> 00:21:58,080
one of the most notorious traffickers on

526
00:22:01,270 --> 00:21:59,120
the west coast

527
00:22:02,710 --> 00:22:01,280
his name is greg hightower he's in

528
00:22:07,270 --> 00:22:02,720
prison in oregon

529
00:22:10,630 --> 00:22:07,280
without possibility of parole and

530
00:22:11,669 --> 00:22:10,640
she says she was arrested on the same

531
00:22:15,590 --> 00:22:11,679
charges

532
00:22:19,029 --> 00:22:15,600
that he was arrested on uh and

533
00:22:21,430 --> 00:22:19,039
she did four years in the penitentiary

534
00:22:23,350 --> 00:22:21,440
and in the book she talks about

535
00:22:25,110 --> 00:22:23,360
the day that she was sitting out in the

536
00:22:27,430 --> 00:22:25,120
grass in the yard

537
00:22:28,549 --> 00:22:27,440
with another inmate and she said for the

538
00:22:31,909 --> 00:22:28,559
first time

539
00:22:35,270 --> 00:22:31,919
in 12 years i finally feel free and

540
00:22:37,909 --> 00:22:35,280
so that imprisonment actually and

541
00:22:38,789 --> 00:22:37,919
again i don't advocate for victims being

542
00:22:42,149 --> 00:22:38,799
arrested

543
00:22:44,390 --> 00:22:42,159
but i can tell you that it has been if

544
00:22:46,310 --> 00:22:44,400
she would not and she would say this she

545
00:22:49,190 --> 00:22:46,320
would not have gotten free

546
00:22:51,590 --> 00:22:49,200
if not for that um she'd be a great

547
00:22:55,430 --> 00:22:51,600
guest for you to have on because

548
00:22:57,270 --> 00:22:55,440
she knows the life from the inside out

549
00:22:59,350 --> 00:22:57,280
you mentioned the largest trafficker in

550
00:23:02,149 --> 00:22:59,360
this area give us an idea

551
00:23:03,430 --> 00:23:02,159
when what kind of scale we have with

552
00:23:07,110 --> 00:23:03,440
some of these traffickers like

553
00:23:09,110 --> 00:23:07,120
give us an example of one or more of

554
00:23:11,029 --> 00:23:09,120
big-time networks not just an individual

555
00:23:11,909 --> 00:23:11,039
guy doing it but a real network of

556
00:23:14,149 --> 00:23:11,919
trafficking

557
00:23:15,990 --> 00:23:14,159
so yeah there's a there's a misnomer

558
00:23:19,110 --> 00:23:16,000
that there's these syndicated

559
00:23:19,750 --> 00:23:19,120
trafficking rings and and when you when

560
00:23:22,950 --> 00:23:19,760
you hear

561
00:23:24,950 --> 00:23:22,960
that you have to um

562
00:23:26,950 --> 00:23:24,960
i've been doing it 15 years and you've

563
00:23:29,149 --> 00:23:26,960
got like the epstein thing

564
00:23:30,549 --> 00:23:29,159
which is it's a much higher and more

565
00:23:33,750 --> 00:23:30,559
sophisticated

566
00:23:36,789 --> 00:23:33,760
situation a lot of money there

567
00:23:39,830 --> 00:23:36,799
um so but the girls are still

568
00:23:40,870 --> 00:23:39,840
trafficked they're still minors having

569
00:23:44,149 --> 00:23:40,880
sex

570
00:23:48,070 --> 00:23:44,159
for uh monetary gain or

571
00:23:49,830 --> 00:23:48,080
any kind of gain um and they're treated

572
00:23:50,789 --> 00:23:49,840
horrifically i mean some of that stuff

573
00:23:54,149 --> 00:23:50,799
has started to come

574
00:23:57,190 --> 00:23:54,159
out and uh you know there was a

575
00:23:59,430 --> 00:23:57,200
a uh article the other day about

576
00:24:00,789 --> 00:23:59,440
um can't think of the gal's name that

577
00:24:03,669 --> 00:24:00,799
was epstein's

578
00:24:03,990 --> 00:24:03,679
girlfriend and and accomplice you

579
00:24:07,510 --> 00:24:04,000
probably

580
00:24:09,669 --> 00:24:07,520
remember galen yeah elaine maxwell

581
00:24:10,789 --> 00:24:09,679
galen maxwell yes so there was an

582
00:24:13,990 --> 00:24:10,799
article

583
00:24:15,750 --> 00:24:14,000
about her taking someone's passport

584
00:24:19,190 --> 00:24:15,760
and then making them have sex with

585
00:24:21,830 --> 00:24:19,200
epstein and i was just almost like

586
00:24:22,470 --> 00:24:21,840
not laughable but it's like oh my gosh

587
00:24:24,950 --> 00:24:22,480
that's

588
00:24:25,990 --> 00:24:24,960
shocking to somebody that happens every

589
00:24:28,789 --> 00:24:26,000
day on every

590
00:24:29,510 --> 00:24:28,799
level of trafficking that's just a part

591
00:24:32,549 --> 00:24:29,520
of

592
00:24:36,470 --> 00:24:32,559
what happens um so

593
00:24:39,909 --> 00:24:36,480
um you know that trafficking is the same

594
00:24:43,110 --> 00:24:39,919
whether you're epstein or whether you're

595
00:24:46,870 --> 00:24:43,120
uh a thug that uh

596
00:24:50,310 --> 00:24:46,880
is a wannabe so are you saying

597
00:24:52,230 --> 00:24:50,320
that it is more smaller time

598
00:24:53,430 --> 00:24:52,240
it isn't major conglomerate networks for

599
00:24:56,870 --> 00:24:53,440
the most part right

600
00:24:58,549 --> 00:24:56,880
yes that's what i'm saying and and so

601
00:25:01,909 --> 00:24:58,559
i i mentioned we want to talk some

602
00:25:05,269 --> 00:25:01,919
epstein because we did a lot of episodes

603
00:25:07,350 --> 00:25:05,279
on that um i don't know how much you've

604
00:25:10,549 --> 00:25:07,360
looked into it it seems to me

605
00:25:13,029 --> 00:25:10,559
that most of the women that he was

606
00:25:14,870 --> 00:25:13,039
working with were for his pleasure you

607
00:25:17,590 --> 00:25:14,880
know the whole game was getting them

608
00:25:19,590 --> 00:25:17,600
in there to massage him etc and galen

609
00:25:22,710 --> 00:25:19,600
played a role in that and so on

610
00:25:25,269 --> 00:25:22,720
um really there's been

611
00:25:26,710 --> 00:25:25,279
not a lot of proof that he was

612
00:25:29,990 --> 00:25:26,720
trafficking them to

613
00:25:33,190 --> 00:25:30,000
other men you got uh prince andrew

614
00:25:37,110 --> 00:25:33,200
accusations and so on but what's your

615
00:25:38,470 --> 00:25:37,120
understanding of that uh yeah i think

616
00:25:40,390 --> 00:25:38,480
you know i think we have to go by the

617
00:25:44,630 --> 00:25:40,400
evidence i think there's uh

618
00:25:51,990 --> 00:25:47,990
uh speculation around the epstein thing

619
00:25:56,230 --> 00:25:52,000
uh a lot of um people that

620
00:25:59,350 --> 00:25:56,240
would say you know it was this

621
00:26:02,950 --> 00:25:59,360
party or it was this party well

622
00:26:07,350 --> 00:26:02,960
both parties partied with epstein

623
00:26:09,590 --> 00:26:07,360
and so uh you know i think it was

624
00:26:12,870 --> 00:26:09,600
um one thing i can tell you about

625
00:26:17,190 --> 00:26:15,669
i've been doing this long enough i can

626
00:26:20,149 --> 00:26:17,200
just about

627
00:26:20,549 --> 00:26:20,159
pick one out walking across the room uh

628
00:26:24,149 --> 00:26:20,559
they

629
00:26:28,310 --> 00:26:24,159
all have this narcissistic

630
00:26:31,430 --> 00:26:28,320
kind of um it's all about them

631
00:26:33,510 --> 00:26:31,440
so i would expect that with epstein

632
00:26:36,070 --> 00:26:33,520
that it would be all about him i would

633
00:26:39,350 --> 00:26:36,080
also tell you though that traffickers

634
00:26:40,070 --> 00:26:39,360
break in the girls for how horrific that

635
00:26:44,149 --> 00:26:40,080
is

636
00:26:47,269 --> 00:26:44,159
but then they then they uh put them out

637
00:26:50,230 --> 00:26:47,279
so they see those uh victims

638
00:26:51,510 --> 00:26:50,240
as their property as something they

639
00:26:55,590 --> 00:26:51,520
control

640
00:26:59,830 --> 00:26:55,600
they'll do whatever

641
00:27:03,350 --> 00:26:59,840
i don't know if epstein had a lot of

642
00:27:06,549 --> 00:27:03,360
sharing of the victims that

643
00:27:08,390 --> 00:27:06,559
he trafficked uh but

644
00:27:09,750 --> 00:27:08,400
i can tell you it's not uncommon with

645
00:27:13,510 --> 00:27:09,760
traffickers

646
00:27:13,909 --> 00:27:13,520
is epstein a trafficker if he did not in

647
00:27:16,390 --> 00:27:13,919
fact

648
00:27:17,510 --> 00:27:16,400
provide women for anyone other than

649
00:27:21,430 --> 00:27:17,520
himself

650
00:27:24,710 --> 00:27:21,440
so the definition of human trafficking

651
00:27:26,389 --> 00:27:24,720
is a commercial sex act induced by force

652
00:27:29,590 --> 00:27:26,399
fraud or coercion

653
00:27:33,350 --> 00:27:29,600
or in which the person being

654
00:27:34,389 --> 00:27:33,360
coerced trafficked is under 18 years of

655
00:27:37,750 --> 00:27:34,399
age

656
00:27:41,350 --> 00:27:37,760
if he had

657
00:27:44,310 --> 00:27:41,360
anybody under the age of 18

658
00:27:45,430 --> 00:27:44,320
he was a trafficker and we know he did

659
00:27:48,389 --> 00:27:45,440
he's a trafficker

660
00:27:50,710 --> 00:27:48,399
okay and what about just so everybody's

661
00:27:53,350 --> 00:27:50,720
on the same page as far as definitions

662
00:27:55,110 --> 00:27:53,360
for for those over 18 if it was

663
00:27:55,750 --> 00:27:55,120
technically speaking if it was only for

664
00:27:57,590 --> 00:27:55,760
himself

665
00:27:58,870 --> 00:27:57,600
then that technically is not trafficking

666
00:28:01,990 --> 00:27:58,880
is that correct so

667
00:28:05,029 --> 00:28:02,000
the difference um is

668
00:28:07,190 --> 00:28:05,039
the force fraud or coercion so can we

669
00:28:08,870 --> 00:28:07,200
prove force fraud or coercion

670
00:28:10,310 --> 00:28:08,880
under 18 you don't even have to prove

671
00:28:12,950 --> 00:28:10,320
that all you have to know is they're

672
00:28:17,430 --> 00:28:12,960
under 18 it's trafficking

673
00:28:19,269 --> 00:28:17,440
over 18 if you can prove force fraud or

674
00:28:20,710 --> 00:28:19,279
coercion which i think you can in the

675
00:28:23,029 --> 00:28:20,720
epstein case

676
00:28:25,190 --> 00:28:23,039
uh then he's a trafficker of those

677
00:28:26,870 --> 00:28:25,200
individuals as well

678
00:28:29,269 --> 00:28:26,880
so the unique thing there being him

679
00:28:30,310 --> 00:28:29,279
recruiting them using girls to recruit

680
00:28:33,430 --> 00:28:30,320
them

681
00:28:35,990 --> 00:28:33,440
house under

682
00:28:37,830 --> 00:28:36,000
false pretenses that kind of stuff as

683
00:28:41,830 --> 00:28:37,840
opposed to again this is kind of about

684
00:28:44,389 --> 00:28:41,840
definitions for me the person who's

685
00:28:46,230 --> 00:28:44,399
on a business the guy on a business trip

686
00:28:48,070 --> 00:28:46,240
who

687
00:28:49,350 --> 00:28:48,080
makes a call to some number that he

688
00:28:52,389 --> 00:28:49,360
learns and and

689
00:28:53,029 --> 00:28:52,399
a girl comes to his room that that's not

690
00:28:56,830 --> 00:28:53,039
trafficking

691
00:28:57,990 --> 00:28:56,840
that's being a john that's that is

692
00:29:02,389 --> 00:28:58,000
provided

693
00:29:04,630 --> 00:29:02,399
that he that it really is

694
00:29:06,149 --> 00:29:04,640
somebody doing it on their own which as

695
00:29:10,710 --> 00:29:06,159
we've talked about earlier

696
00:29:14,230 --> 00:29:10,720
is going to be a very small very small

697
00:29:16,950 --> 00:29:14,240
percentage and i would say that

698
00:29:18,070 --> 00:29:16,960
for you know there's some language

699
00:29:20,710 --> 00:29:18,080
matters

700
00:29:21,830 --> 00:29:20,720
so i don't like to call sex buyers

701
00:29:23,750 --> 00:29:21,840
john's

702
00:29:25,190 --> 00:29:23,760
because they're sex buyers i know some

703
00:29:28,230 --> 00:29:25,200
really nice people

704
00:29:30,070 --> 00:29:28,240
named john and so i call them sex buyers

705
00:29:33,430 --> 00:29:30,080
i don't like to call

706
00:29:34,149 --> 00:29:33,440
uh traffickers pimps because they fancy

707
00:29:37,269 --> 00:29:34,159
themselves

708
00:29:39,430 --> 00:29:37,279
as that um and so

709
00:29:41,350 --> 00:29:39,440
and i like to call victim survivors and

710
00:29:44,710 --> 00:29:41,360
i've had survivors tell me

711
00:29:46,310 --> 00:29:44,720
um that they

712
00:29:49,269 --> 00:29:46,320
even if they're still in the middle of

713
00:29:52,389 --> 00:29:49,279
the life they survived to that day

714
00:29:54,230 --> 00:29:52,399
so they're survivors and um yeah

715
00:29:56,310 --> 00:29:54,240
they're they're some of the most

716
00:29:58,230 --> 00:29:56,320
remarkable people i've ever found

717
00:29:59,830 --> 00:29:58,240
so those are some good that's some good

718
00:30:01,750 --> 00:29:59,840
terminology so

719
00:30:04,310 --> 00:30:01,760
a sex buyer to be clear is not

720
00:30:06,830 --> 00:30:04,320
necessarily a trafficker

721
00:30:08,870 --> 00:30:06,840
correct the cur the girl could be being

722
00:30:10,630 --> 00:30:08,880
trafficked but the buyer

723
00:30:11,750 --> 00:30:10,640
is that's unbeknownst to the buyer

724
00:30:13,990 --> 00:30:11,760
you're pointing out that hey look

725
00:30:15,430 --> 00:30:14,000
everybody should be aware that

726
00:30:17,350 --> 00:30:15,440
if you're ordering a prostitute there's

727
00:30:19,029 --> 00:30:17,360
a good chance she's being trafficked

728
00:30:21,190 --> 00:30:19,039
so everybody should be very aware of

729
00:30:23,269 --> 00:30:21,200
that but but technically speaking

730
00:30:25,190 --> 00:30:23,279
that person's a sex buyer not a

731
00:30:27,830 --> 00:30:25,200
trafficker that is correct

732
00:30:28,950 --> 00:30:27,840
and and then um you something just

733
00:30:29,909 --> 00:30:28,960
occurred to me when you use the term

734
00:30:31,750 --> 00:30:29,919
survivor

735
00:30:33,909 --> 00:30:31,760
uh you know they they talk about the

736
00:30:37,590 --> 00:30:33,919
harvey weinstein

737
00:30:38,630 --> 00:30:37,600
uh females that he they call them

738
00:30:40,870 --> 00:30:38,640
survivors

739
00:30:41,909 --> 00:30:40,880
so which i i don't that seemed a little

740
00:30:44,070 --> 00:30:41,919
overly dramatic

741
00:30:45,190 --> 00:30:44,080
to me but kind of help us understand why

742
00:30:46,630 --> 00:30:45,200
that's

743
00:30:48,149 --> 00:30:46,640
may or may not be overly dramatic to

744
00:30:49,269 --> 00:30:48,159
call somebody in that situation a

745
00:30:52,230 --> 00:30:49,279
survivor

746
00:30:54,789 --> 00:30:52,240
that's not overly dramatic at all if

747
00:30:57,190 --> 00:30:54,799
you've been trafficked and you're alive

748
00:30:58,470 --> 00:30:57,200
you're a survivor that's just that's

749
00:31:02,470 --> 00:30:58,480
just the facts

750
00:31:05,830 --> 00:31:02,480
of you know it's like you have survived

751
00:31:08,870 --> 00:31:05,840
that and so that makes you a survivor

752
00:31:09,590 --> 00:31:08,880
there are all different uh survivors

753
00:31:12,230 --> 00:31:09,600
that are in

754
00:31:13,509 --> 00:31:12,240
different stages of recovery but you

755
00:31:17,590 --> 00:31:13,519
think about

756
00:31:20,950 --> 00:31:17,600
uh somebody and who's been raped

757
00:31:24,470 --> 00:31:20,960
um their survivor of rape

758
00:31:27,350 --> 00:31:24,480
why is it any different than

759
00:31:29,190 --> 00:31:27,360
if somebody's been trafficked their

760
00:31:30,870 --> 00:31:29,200
survivor of trafficking

761
00:31:33,269 --> 00:31:30,880
even if they were only trafficked once

762
00:31:34,389 --> 00:31:33,279
which would be miraculous to only be

763
00:31:36,710 --> 00:31:34,399
trafficked once

764
00:31:37,750 --> 00:31:36,720
so so tell me i just want to touch on a

765
00:31:39,830 --> 00:31:37,760
few

766
00:31:40,870 --> 00:31:39,840
random things before we we wrap up that

767
00:31:42,789 --> 00:31:40,880
i want to ask you about but

768
00:31:44,070 --> 00:31:42,799
those stickers tell us about how

769
00:31:47,590 --> 00:31:44,080
effective

770
00:31:49,590 --> 00:31:47,600
they are and um you know how many

771
00:31:51,350 --> 00:31:49,600
phone calls you guys get as a result of

772
00:31:53,350 --> 00:31:51,360
these stickers that you put up hoping

773
00:31:56,710 --> 00:31:53,360
that someone who's in a bathroom sees it

774
00:31:59,990 --> 00:31:56,720
and realizes that she needs help yeah

775
00:32:02,630 --> 00:32:00,000
so um i these are some of my favorite

776
00:32:03,190 --> 00:32:02,640
things to talk about because these

777
00:32:07,909 --> 00:32:03,200
little

778
00:32:09,830 --> 00:32:07,919
if i may i'd like to give our website

779
00:32:11,230 --> 00:32:09,840
because people can call and get them for

780
00:32:14,870 --> 00:32:11,240
free it's

781
00:32:18,070 --> 00:32:14,880
www dot in our backyard.org

782
00:32:19,110 --> 00:32:18,080
uh and uh we have specific instructions

783
00:32:20,870 --> 00:32:19,120
you have to get permission

784
00:32:22,549 --> 00:32:20,880
we don't want you plastering them we

785
00:32:23,190 --> 00:32:22,559
have certain places that they're

786
00:32:29,909 --> 00:32:23,200
effective

787
00:32:30,230 --> 00:32:29,919
um i know of a uh i'll just talk to you

788
00:32:33,750 --> 00:32:30,240
about

789
00:32:36,470 --> 00:32:33,760
one situation uh where

790
00:32:36,950 --> 00:32:36,480
i've got so many going in my mind now

791
00:32:39,669 --> 00:32:36,960
but

792
00:32:41,509 --> 00:32:39,679
uh one situation where a woman was in

793
00:32:43,430 --> 00:32:41,519
the midst of being trafficked

794
00:32:45,830 --> 00:32:43,440
her traffickers stopped at a convenience

795
00:32:47,509 --> 00:32:45,840
store and we have a whole program called

796
00:32:50,310 --> 00:32:47,519
convenience stores against trafficking

797
00:32:52,549 --> 00:32:50,320
we're in over 22 000 convenience stores

798
00:32:54,549 --> 00:32:52,559
nationwide and we've trained hundreds of

799
00:32:58,149 --> 00:32:54,559
thousands of convenience stores

800
00:32:59,750 --> 00:32:58,159
employees but um she walked into a

801
00:33:02,630 --> 00:32:59,760
convenience store

802
00:33:04,149 --> 00:33:02,640
while he was getting whatever and she

803
00:33:05,909 --> 00:33:04,159
went to the restroom

804
00:33:09,509 --> 00:33:05,919
and in that restroom was a freedom

805
00:33:12,470 --> 00:33:09,519
sticker and she saw the freedom sticker

806
00:33:13,669 --> 00:33:12,480
she took down the number when she was by

807
00:33:16,789 --> 00:33:13,679
herself and

808
00:33:18,470 --> 00:33:16,799
and a victim will probably put that in

809
00:33:21,430 --> 00:33:18,480
her phone she may put it in

810
00:33:22,870 --> 00:33:21,440
as john on thursday afternoon uh but

811
00:33:24,389 --> 00:33:22,880
she'll put that in her phone and then

812
00:33:27,830 --> 00:33:24,399
she'll text that when she's

813
00:33:30,870 --> 00:33:27,840
in a safe has the time anyway she

814
00:33:34,630 --> 00:33:30,880
um she made the call

815
00:33:38,710 --> 00:33:34,640
made the text she and her

816
00:33:42,310 --> 00:33:38,720
two children are alive and well

817
00:33:44,389 --> 00:33:42,320
and living in a house

818
00:33:45,509 --> 00:33:44,399
that was provided that to them by a

819
00:33:47,990 --> 00:33:45,519
service provider

820
00:33:48,630 --> 00:33:48,000
she's going to school she's ready to get

821
00:33:50,870 --> 00:33:48,640
a job

822
00:33:51,990 --> 00:33:50,880
her children are in school they're in a

823
00:33:54,549 --> 00:33:52,000
safe place they're not

824
00:33:55,669 --> 00:33:54,559
being used as a bartering tool by the

825
00:33:58,710 --> 00:33:55,679
trafficker

826
00:34:00,710 --> 00:33:58,720
um another one we just saw

827
00:34:02,470 --> 00:34:00,720
this week um a

828
00:34:06,310 --> 00:34:02,480
[Music]

829
00:34:08,149 --> 00:34:06,320
sex ad actually that um and

830
00:34:10,149 --> 00:34:08,159
i can't tell you where but i can tell

831
00:34:13,589 --> 00:34:10,159
you there was a sex ad

832
00:34:15,349 --> 00:34:13,599
that had um she was in a convenience

833
00:34:18,149 --> 00:34:15,359
store bathroom

834
00:34:19,190 --> 00:34:18,159
and she was taking photos of herself

835
00:34:22,470 --> 00:34:19,200
with her phone

836
00:34:25,750 --> 00:34:22,480
in the bathroom for um for an ad

837
00:34:29,349 --> 00:34:25,760
that are trafficker placed online so

838
00:34:31,909 --> 00:34:29,359
um i mean it they're in the right spot

839
00:34:34,629 --> 00:34:31,919
and they're in in oregon we've passed

840
00:34:37,750 --> 00:34:34,639
laws they're in all of our rest areas

841
00:34:39,669 --> 00:34:37,760
um we don't know how many have been

842
00:34:43,109 --> 00:34:39,679
recovered as a result of it

843
00:34:45,589 --> 00:34:43,119
i talked to somebody um you probably

844
00:34:46,230 --> 00:34:45,599
may remember um about a year and a half

845
00:34:49,510 --> 00:34:46,240
ago

846
00:34:52,869 --> 00:34:49,520
there was a a place called

847
00:34:55,109 --> 00:34:52,879
backpage online that was shut down

848
00:34:56,149 --> 00:34:55,119
and when backpage was shut down she

849
00:34:58,870 --> 00:34:56,159
called me

850
00:34:59,829 --> 00:34:58,880
and she had been trafficked for years

851
00:35:05,349 --> 00:34:59,839
she was

852
00:35:06,870 --> 00:35:05,359
late 30s

853
00:35:08,630 --> 00:35:06,880
she didn't know anything else and she

854
00:35:11,829 --> 00:35:08,640
called me and she said

855
00:35:12,550 --> 00:35:11,839
um i wanted to get out and she said i

856
00:35:15,829 --> 00:35:12,560
saw

857
00:35:16,310 --> 00:35:15,839
the the sticker the freedom sticker and

858
00:35:18,870 --> 00:35:16,320
um

859
00:35:21,510 --> 00:35:18,880
she said i almost pulled it off but i

860
00:35:24,550 --> 00:35:21,520
knew somebody else would need it

861
00:35:27,030 --> 00:35:24,560
and um you know it's like

862
00:35:27,829 --> 00:35:27,040
they speak to these are these are

863
00:35:31,270 --> 00:35:27,839
designed

864
00:35:33,270 --> 00:35:31,280
by survivors we have on here what will

865
00:35:36,630 --> 00:35:33,280
speak to a survivor

866
00:35:40,150 --> 00:35:36,640
and they work i

867
00:35:41,670 --> 00:35:40,160
highly encourage that because

868
00:35:44,069 --> 00:35:41,680
the more we can do the other thing they

869
00:35:47,390 --> 00:35:44,079
do is they help just regular citizens

870
00:35:50,069 --> 00:35:47,400
like you and i know that um

871
00:35:55,109 --> 00:35:50,079
[Music]

872
00:35:58,710 --> 00:35:57,670
do you track much what the mexican

873
00:36:00,710 --> 00:35:58,720
cartels

874
00:36:02,870 --> 00:36:00,720
are up to when it comes to trafficking

875
00:36:05,430 --> 00:36:02,880
people uh to the u.s

876
00:36:06,470 --> 00:36:05,440
we do not there's a story in my book

877
00:36:10,790 --> 00:36:06,480
about that

878
00:36:13,430 --> 00:36:10,800
um so um it's a story actually about

879
00:36:14,870 --> 00:36:13,440
a young male who was trafficked from

880
00:36:19,270 --> 00:36:14,880
mexico

881
00:36:22,230 --> 00:36:19,280
by one of the cartels into the um

882
00:36:23,829 --> 00:36:22,240
another area and i can't remember i mean

883
00:36:25,829 --> 00:36:23,839
you know we we've learned

884
00:36:27,270 --> 00:36:25,839
and some through some of the deep dives

885
00:36:29,990 --> 00:36:27,280
we've done we've done a deep dive on

886
00:36:31,190 --> 00:36:30,000
actually on um drugs et cetera and got

887
00:36:33,190 --> 00:36:31,200
into the cartels

888
00:36:35,109 --> 00:36:33,200
we learned something really interesting

889
00:36:38,230 --> 00:36:35,119
about them that the largest

890
00:36:41,430 --> 00:36:38,240
growers of marijuana in california

891
00:36:43,430 --> 00:36:41,440
are mexican drug cartels and

892
00:36:44,550 --> 00:36:43,440
you know they came up one of them came

893
00:36:46,230 --> 00:36:44,560
up with a brilliant idea

894
00:36:47,670 --> 00:36:46,240
10 or 20 years ago he's like well you

895
00:36:49,270 --> 00:36:47,680
know this really is a pain in the butt

896
00:36:50,790 --> 00:36:49,280
to haul all this marijuana over the

897
00:36:51,589 --> 00:36:50,800
border why don't we just grow it in

898
00:36:53,829 --> 00:36:51,599
california

899
00:36:55,349 --> 00:36:53,839
and sure enough they are doing it and

900
00:36:57,030 --> 00:36:55,359
it's why even though it's legal in

901
00:36:58,790 --> 00:36:57,040
california most of the

902
00:37:00,630 --> 00:36:58,800
the sales of marijuana in california are

903
00:37:02,630 --> 00:37:00,640
still coming from the cartels so

904
00:37:04,550 --> 00:37:02,640
these guys are running all kinds of

905
00:37:05,990 --> 00:37:04,560
businesses in the u.s that we may or may

906
00:37:07,750 --> 00:37:06,000
not be aware of so

907
00:37:09,589 --> 00:37:07,760
uh but as far as you know you never

908
00:37:12,870 --> 00:37:09,599
heard any evidence that they are

909
00:37:15,750 --> 00:37:12,880
bringing girls or what have you from

910
00:37:16,710 --> 00:37:15,760
mexico to the u.s and trafficking them i

911
00:37:19,109 --> 00:37:16,720
i think they are

912
00:37:21,030 --> 00:37:19,119
yeah uh but the other thing i will tell

913
00:37:22,470 --> 00:37:21,040
you you just said you know it's a pain

914
00:37:24,790 --> 00:37:22,480
in the butt going from

915
00:37:25,670 --> 00:37:24,800
bringing that marijuana across the

916
00:37:27,109 --> 00:37:25,680
border

917
00:37:28,950 --> 00:37:27,119
the other thing that i will tell you

918
00:37:31,829 --> 00:37:28,960
from a trafficker's point of view

919
00:37:33,750 --> 00:37:31,839
is a lot of them have been drug dealers

920
00:37:37,430 --> 00:37:33,760
and may still dabble in it

921
00:37:41,030 --> 00:37:37,440
but they can only sell

922
00:37:43,829 --> 00:37:41,040
that cocaine that marijuana wants

923
00:37:44,630 --> 00:37:43,839
but they can sell a girl over and over

924
00:37:49,030 --> 00:37:44,640
and over

925
00:37:51,589 --> 00:37:49,040
doing more trafficking

926
00:37:52,550 --> 00:37:51,599
than they were human trafficking than

927
00:37:56,069 --> 00:37:52,560
they were

928
00:37:57,510 --> 00:37:56,079
drug trafficking and isn't that another

929
00:37:59,109 --> 00:37:57,520
component that you often see

930
00:38:00,550 --> 00:37:59,119
which is getting the girls hooked on

931
00:38:04,470 --> 00:38:00,560
drugs

932
00:38:09,110 --> 00:38:04,480
sometimes i have known uh survivors

933
00:38:10,710 --> 00:38:09,120
that have not

934
00:38:13,430 --> 00:38:10,720
[Music]

935
00:38:15,820 --> 00:38:13,440
have have not done drugs during the

936
00:38:17,190 --> 00:38:15,830
whole time they were trafficked

937
00:38:20,310 --> 00:38:17,200
[Music]

938
00:38:22,310 --> 00:38:20,320
but i would say the large majority

939
00:38:23,990 --> 00:38:22,320
and it's kind of which came first the

940
00:38:25,670 --> 00:38:24,000
chicken or the egg because traffickers

941
00:38:27,430 --> 00:38:25,680
look for vulnerabilities

942
00:38:28,790 --> 00:38:27,440
if a person's on drugs that's a

943
00:38:32,710 --> 00:38:28,800
vulnerability

944
00:38:33,430 --> 00:38:32,720
um they um so yeah there's a lot of

945
00:38:37,270 --> 00:38:33,440
drugs

946
00:38:41,109 --> 00:38:37,280
mixed in with trafficking but not always

947
00:38:43,589 --> 00:38:41,119
and and where would you uh say that

948
00:38:45,750 --> 00:38:43,599
what's the state of the problem today

949
00:38:48,710 --> 00:38:45,760
relative to in the past it's getting

950
00:38:50,470 --> 00:38:48,720
worse it's getting better i think uh i

951
00:38:54,230 --> 00:38:50,480
think it's getting worse

952
00:38:57,190 --> 00:38:54,240
um because you know let's say

953
00:38:57,510 --> 00:38:57,200
20 years ago we didn't have the internet

954
00:39:01,109 --> 00:38:57,520
as

955
00:39:03,030 --> 00:39:01,119
years ago but thirty

956
00:39:05,109 --> 00:39:03,040
thirty years ago he didn't have the

957
00:39:07,109 --> 00:39:05,119
internet and so

958
00:39:09,589 --> 00:39:07,119
it's like everything else now that

959
00:39:13,270 --> 00:39:09,599
they've got it on the internet

960
00:39:17,750 --> 00:39:13,280
they are able to um to sell more

961
00:39:21,670 --> 00:39:17,760
do more um and you know you've still got

962
00:39:24,950 --> 00:39:21,680
the people down on the track the blade

963
00:39:27,990 --> 00:39:24,960
whatever uh there's several terms for it

964
00:39:29,750 --> 00:39:28,000
in uh in the life but down

965
00:39:31,670 --> 00:39:29,760
on that certain street or certain

966
00:39:34,630 --> 00:39:31,680
streets in a in a city

967
00:39:35,109 --> 00:39:34,640
when we go in for super bowl we we talk

968
00:39:36,950 --> 00:39:35,119
to

969
00:39:38,630 --> 00:39:36,960
law enforcement we work closely with law

970
00:39:41,990 --> 00:39:38,640
enforcement

971
00:39:45,109 --> 00:39:42,000
i have been a part of bus down on the

972
00:39:47,030 --> 00:39:45,119
track that um where we

973
00:39:48,390 --> 00:39:47,040
are able to get the girls some services

974
00:39:51,670 --> 00:39:48,400
and help them out

975
00:39:54,069 --> 00:39:51,680
um but um yeah that's

976
00:39:56,790 --> 00:39:54,079
there's there's that still but it's more

977
00:39:57,750 --> 00:39:56,800
on the internet well and i would throw

978
00:40:00,710 --> 00:39:57,760
out another

979
00:40:02,150 --> 00:40:00,720
theory which is that the the general

980
00:40:06,309 --> 00:40:02,160
breakdown of the

981
00:40:09,430 --> 00:40:06,319
nuclear family in america leads to

982
00:40:11,349 --> 00:40:09,440
more children being raised in homes

983
00:40:12,790 --> 00:40:11,359
without parents or with a single parent

984
00:40:13,670 --> 00:40:12,800
and so on and for sure that's going to

985
00:40:17,270 --> 00:40:13,680
create a more

986
00:40:19,670 --> 00:40:17,280
susceptible person absolutely yeah

987
00:40:20,790 --> 00:40:19,680
yeah we've got a lot more kids in the

988
00:40:24,309 --> 00:40:20,800
system

989
00:40:25,030 --> 00:40:24,319
and well my book the first chapter i

990
00:40:27,910 --> 00:40:25,040
talked about

991
00:40:29,510 --> 00:40:27,920
sarah and how she came from an upper

992
00:40:31,990 --> 00:40:29,520
middle class home

993
00:40:34,309 --> 00:40:32,000
and was trafficked and that that

994
00:40:35,910 --> 00:40:34,319
absolutely happens our new executive

995
00:40:38,309 --> 00:40:35,920
director came from

996
00:40:39,270 --> 00:40:38,319
a middle class home and she was

997
00:40:42,790 --> 00:40:39,280
trafficked

998
00:40:46,150 --> 00:40:42,800
at the age of 10 by neighbor kids

999
00:40:49,910 --> 00:40:46,160
uh whose parents were traffickers

1000
00:40:53,109 --> 00:40:49,920
uh but the large incidents

1001
00:40:55,829 --> 00:40:53,119
of kiddos in the system

1002
00:40:56,790 --> 00:40:55,839
really makes for a lot more trafficking

1003
00:40:58,630 --> 00:40:56,800
opportunities

1004
00:41:00,950 --> 00:40:58,640
last question bringing it back to the

1005
00:41:04,950 --> 00:41:00,960
super bowl i know tampa is known

1006
00:41:07,750 --> 00:41:04,960
for its strip clubs um

1007
00:41:08,710 --> 00:41:07,760
what role do the strip clubs play in

1008
00:41:11,910 --> 00:41:08,720
this

1009
00:41:15,270 --> 00:41:11,920
yeah um you know we've had uh two

1010
00:41:18,630 --> 00:41:15,280
strip clubs in portland at least two

1011
00:41:21,910 --> 00:41:18,640
that were uh shut down as a result of

1012
00:41:25,190 --> 00:41:21,920
uh minors dancing there and

1013
00:41:29,430 --> 00:41:25,200
knowingly that they were doing dates

1014
00:41:31,990 --> 00:41:29,440
um so it absolutely

1015
00:41:32,470 --> 00:41:32,000
happens within the strip clubs i won't

1016
00:41:35,910 --> 00:41:32,480
say

1017
00:41:36,710 --> 00:41:35,920
that um all strip club owners are our

1018
00:41:40,230 --> 00:41:36,720
traffickers

1019
00:41:43,109 --> 00:41:40,240
i will say that um one

1020
00:41:44,470 --> 00:41:43,119
one of the things another terminology we

1021
00:41:46,630 --> 00:41:44,480
don't call this the sex

1022
00:41:48,069 --> 00:41:46,640
industry when somebody's being

1023
00:41:50,470 --> 00:41:48,079
trafficked there's no industry

1024
00:41:51,430 --> 00:41:50,480
about that that's not a legitimate

1025
00:41:54,790 --> 00:41:51,440
business

1026
00:41:57,990 --> 00:41:54,800
it's it's uh the criminal enterprise

1027
00:42:02,309 --> 00:41:58,000
of sex um but the

1028
00:42:04,870 --> 00:42:02,319
strip clubs are the sex industry and so

1029
00:42:05,910 --> 00:42:04,880
that sex industry and the criminal

1030
00:42:09,430 --> 00:42:05,920
enterprise

1031
00:42:12,710 --> 00:42:09,440
are very um

1032
00:42:15,750 --> 00:42:12,720
very closely clinic connected

1033
00:42:18,150 --> 00:42:15,760
but perhaps there's strip clubs

1034
00:42:19,270 --> 00:42:18,160
in most places are pretty highly

1035
00:42:21,990 --> 00:42:19,280
regulated and

1036
00:42:22,309 --> 00:42:22,000
and so having traffickers operating in

1037
00:42:26,150 --> 00:42:22,319
them

1038
00:42:30,150 --> 00:42:26,160
is less likely um

1039
00:42:31,349 --> 00:42:30,160
no uh you know i've been a lot of strip

1040
00:42:35,670 --> 00:42:31,359
clubs over the years

1041
00:42:39,430 --> 00:42:35,680
and uh you know some are going to be

1042
00:42:41,750 --> 00:42:39,440
more uh they're regulated

1043
00:42:45,109 --> 00:42:41,760
and it depends on the city regulations

1044
00:42:47,910 --> 00:42:45,119
usually that's not a state regulation

1045
00:42:49,190 --> 00:42:47,920
it depends on the city regulations how

1046
00:42:52,710 --> 00:42:49,200
how

1047
00:42:56,309 --> 00:42:52,720
careful the city is looking at that

1048
00:42:59,190 --> 00:42:56,319
and some strip cup owners will

1049
00:43:00,630 --> 00:42:59,200
have uh certain things that they're not

1050
00:43:05,430 --> 00:43:00,640
going to tolerate

1051
00:43:07,349 --> 00:43:05,440
uh but it's absolutely intertwined

1052
00:43:09,270 --> 00:43:07,359
the stickers belong in those bathrooms

1053
00:43:12,710 --> 00:43:09,280
too it sounds like yes

1054
00:43:13,910 --> 00:43:12,720
well one little story uh before we close

1055
00:43:17,190 --> 00:43:13,920
one of my favorite

1056
00:43:19,589 --> 00:43:17,200
we uh we mandated in oregon not

1057
00:43:20,630 --> 00:43:19,599
mandated that they be put up what we

1058
00:43:23,109 --> 00:43:20,640
mandated that

1059
00:43:24,950 --> 00:43:23,119
the uh freedom stickers go out with

1060
00:43:26,550 --> 00:43:24,960
every renewal of the liquor license in

1061
00:43:29,430 --> 00:43:26,560
the state of oregon

1062
00:43:30,630 --> 00:43:29,440
and one of my favorite calls for freedom

1063
00:43:33,670 --> 00:43:30,640
stickers

1064
00:43:35,750 --> 00:43:33,680
uh is a strip club owner

1065
00:43:39,349 --> 00:43:35,760
he's like i gotta get some more of those

1066
00:43:41,109 --> 00:43:39,359
blankety-blank stickers from my bathroom

1067
00:43:42,390 --> 00:43:41,119
we thought he was mandated to put him up

1068
00:43:43,270 --> 00:43:42,400
and i wasn't going to tell him any

1069
00:43:47,270 --> 00:43:43,280
different

1070
00:43:50,470 --> 00:43:47,280
so yeah that's funny

1071
00:43:51,589 --> 00:43:50,480
yeah well um those stickers sound great

1072
00:43:54,790 --> 00:43:51,599
and will definitely

1073
00:43:57,109 --> 00:43:54,800
promote in our backyard.org

1074
00:43:58,790 --> 00:43:57,119
right right i hope you've got a deal

1075
00:44:00,069 --> 00:43:58,800
with 7-eleven that they just put them in

1076
00:44:03,109 --> 00:44:00,079
all theirs

1077
00:44:06,230 --> 00:44:03,119
uh we have some 7-eleven stores

1078
00:44:08,790 --> 00:44:06,240
we have uh two of the top 20

1079
00:44:09,510 --> 00:44:08,800
convenience store chains come and go and

1080
00:44:12,550 --> 00:44:09,520
casey's

1081
00:44:15,589 --> 00:44:12,560
uh both are partners of ours we just

1082
00:44:17,589 --> 00:44:15,599
uh signed a deal with bp oil so

1083
00:44:19,670 --> 00:44:17,599
yeah we're we're working to get them in

1084
00:44:20,710 --> 00:44:19,680
everybody my passion is to have those

1085
00:44:22,870 --> 00:44:20,720
freedom stickers

1086
00:44:24,870 --> 00:44:22,880
in every public restroom in the united

1087
00:44:25,589 --> 00:44:24,880
states thank you again to our guest nita

1088
00:44:27,270 --> 00:44:25,599
bells

1089
00:44:28,630 --> 00:44:27,280
you can check out her book in our

1090
00:44:30,670 --> 00:44:28,640
backyard on

1091
00:44:32,230 --> 00:44:30,680
amazon also go to her website in our

1092
00:44:33,990 --> 00:44:32,240
backyard.org

1093
00:44:35,589 --> 00:44:34,000
and as she said you can request the

1094
00:44:38,309 --> 00:44:35,599
stickers there

1095
00:44:40,470 --> 00:44:38,319
that seem to be very effective go to in

1096
00:44:40,950 --> 00:44:40,480
our backyard.org if you want to request

1097
00:44:43,109 --> 00:44:40,960
those

1098
00:44:44,950 --> 00:44:43,119
stickers thank you to our producer

1099
00:44:46,870 --> 00:44:44,960
michael parker we'll be back soon with

1100
00:44:51,950 --> 00:44:46,880
another episode of the hidden truth show

1101
00:44:54,630 --> 00:44:53,109
[Applause]

1102
00:44:56,390 --> 00:44:54,640
thank you for listening to the truth

1103
00:44:59,910 --> 00:44:56,400
show with jim breslow

1104
00:45:02,829 --> 00:44:59,920
you can find us at hiddentruthshow.com

1105
00:45:04,870 --> 00:45:02,839
follow us on facebook twitter and

1106
00:45:06,630 --> 00:45:04,880
instagram that hit the truth show

1107
00:45:08,870 --> 00:45:06,640
join us again next week for another